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 Posted: Jun-14-2013 10:21AM
Total posts: 812
Last post: Oct 29, 2015
Member since:Jan 29, 2012
I'd love to see a 2nd person simply to call out penalties, or even 2 people so they can split the track and see most things. I've even suggested it before, but I'm not generally available to go step up and do this as I tend to be racing or marshalling a lot due to running multiple classes. If you know somebody that is, please suggest they talk to the folks in charge (such as Eric or Tony) and volunteer.

@Chuck It is both motor and driver. You're right that other sports have multiple skill levels for competition and race programs. Those levels also tend to come with restrictions on motor, speed, vehicle type, etc. To use 2wd buggy as an example, since you have as well, the same structure exists with sportsman 17.5. It is there to get people acclimatized to racing the class and controlling their car while being easier to control and less of an issue if it goes out of control. Once they show control and speed by winning multiple times, they then get bumped up to the expert 17.5. From there it is their choice what to compete in for class, 17.5 expert, open, or both. Some people have just decided to skip the natural progression of things.

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 10:13AM
Total posts: 411
Last post: Jul 6, 2015
Member since:Mar 23, 2012

Every so often I read through these threads to see if I can find any good ideas to improve our race program.  Trust me when I tell you, rough driving is not just a problem at one track.  It happens everywhere to a certain degree.  There are some really good race directors out there.  But even they only have 2 eyes and they can't see everything.  I really love the idea of adding a spotter, whose only job is to watch the race for rough driving, and then let the race director know as it happens so that the RD can hand out penalties.  I love the idea so much that I am going to try it out tomorrow at our club race.  It should be interesting

 

Jason 

Rattlesnake Raceway - Redding, Ca, www.rattlesnakerc.com, www.BuiltRC.com, www.oncourseawards.com

Jason 

Rattlesnake Raceway - Redding, Ca, www.rattlesnakerc.com, www.BuiltRC.com, www.oncourseawards.com

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 10:09AM
Total posts: 381
Last post: Apr 1, 2014
Member since:Dec 17, 2012
I'm not digging the video idea, but a race referee to callout violations has my vote. They obviously can't catch everything, but repeat offenders will stand out.

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 10:02AM
Total posts: 951
Last post: Aug 27, 2014
Member since:Nov 6, 2011
Here's an idea lol. We video tape every race. If your found to be blatantly driving rough, you are disqualified. It's on tape.

Or.....

It's hard to be a race director, lots of stuff going on. Calling the race, making sure everything runs smooth. Maybe just add another person that is looking only for rough driving.

 

Team Schumacher USA 

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 09:56AM
Total posts: 951
Last post: Aug 27, 2014
Member since:Nov 6, 2011
The worst offenders are the experienced drivers. It's expected to happen in rookie class. You can split all the classes from here to the moon, it won't matter. It's happening every race every heat. Stop and go's need to be enforced. If you spin someone from behind out, stop and go. It's not hard. It's about sportsmanship. It's about respect and fairness. I don't care if your a pro level driver or sportsman, if you just run through other drivers, your a hack. Just because the director doesn't see it or call it, police yourself. You'll get more respect with other drivers seeing that than to be a jerk and continue the behavior.

 

Team Schumacher USA 

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 09:34AM
Total posts: 381
Last post: Apr 1, 2014
Member since:Dec 17, 2012
I don't buy the "too many classes" arguement because before 17.5 came into the picture it was just open classes. Instead of 2 races of mod buggies, it's now 1 race of 17.5 and 1 race of mod. On an indoor track the 17.5 and mod lap times are basically identical, so why are they separated? It's not the motor, it's the drivers. It's just like the gun arguement. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. A mod motor doesn't cause crashes, inexperienced driving does. Tell me another form of competition that puts basically new competitors with expert and pro competitors? I'm sorry, but winning 3 rookie races doesn't make you an expert. The expert and pro drivers complain about the sportsman drivers, so why don't we separate them? I wonder if they actually want them in their races so they have somebody to lap over and over. The problem and solution is crystal clear to me and the proof is in every other form of organized competitions.

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 09:29AM
Total posts: 1497
Last post: Nov 24, 2018
Member since:May 4, 2007
Driving skill and what comes out of your mouth are 2 different things to control! First thing is every one should not say a thing on the driver stand, except for help my car is up side down. The worst thing for any track is for a employee or some one that represents NorCal is yelling at any one during a race or for any reason what so ever. Plain respect and being humble after a race regardless of what happend should be the very least of what's expected out of this fun hobby! Motor limits on SCT need to be mandatory, for indoor tracks! Driving skills that's a given if you are not as fast give the next guy a little room to pass or expect to be taken out! Hard lesson to learn but we all will learn quick!

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 09:06AM
Total posts: 951
Last post: Aug 27, 2014
Member since:Nov 6, 2011
It's about etiquette. If the stop and go's were respected it would slow down the rough driving.

 

Team Schumacher USA 

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 08:48AM
Total posts: 137
Last post: Jul 6, 2014
Member since:Mar 15, 2013
too many hacking <= people with different skill level can't separate out <= if split the classes to skill levels, there will be too many races, then people will complain about the long late night...

I think rookie class is fine, generally packed into one messy race and it's only 4 minutes.

question: can't hack back-marker? cuz they are usually slower, and unpredictable, and sometimes don't recognize the leading guys, can be dangerous to overtake. Most of the case I just run into them because of the unpredictableness, except I would not stop and wait because I'm lapping. Again a sportsman/expert problem though...

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 08:16AM
Total posts: 35
Last post: Aug 31, 2017
Member since:Aug 18, 2000
Last wednesday was pretty bad in 2wd sportsman buggy. Got hacked so many times to the point I might consider racing elsewhere. Being that time is an issue, there should not be more than 8 cars in any main as it causes a lot of problems. 11 or 12 car mains will cause headaches. Having the b main will help this. Inside is nice, more marshals although most are watching the race. Outside is much much cleaner racing but lacks marshal support, the racing is closer and more exciting in my eyes.

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 07:44AM
Total posts: 711
Last post: May 12, 2015
Member since:Sep 21, 2010
Well, I'm happy to hear it's not just me and also sad to hear it at the same time. I actually dumped SCT altogether because of the actions of 2-3 drivers. The same guys show up every few months and ruin my day. I had a really good time racing outdoors this year with Dave, Tim, Red, Nicholas, etc. We all get along, we're all about the same pace, but there are a few people that think that tapping someone every other corner and T boning others is the only way to pass.

I've raced boats and planes in the past. In boats every driver has a judge that watches just their boat and calls penalties for them. In planes they have a judge at each pylon. Maybe we should have 2-3 spotters for each race and have them call out infractions to the RD. Or here's a novel idea, we need to start enforcing the rules via peer pressure. There are always 4-5 guys watching every race, have them call out rough driving and poor sportsmanship. If the leader is coming up on a slower driver let them know. Why should the RD have to watch the entire field? If we as a group rag on those that drive like A***s maybe they will get the point.

I don't think there needs to be a Sportsman and Expert for each class. If you look at the times for the two 17.5 buggy classes they are basically equal lap times, but the driving is a little cleaner in Expert. It also drags out the day when there are 2 heats with 3-4 guys in them for every class.

I'm jumping down off my soapbox now...


Chris
Attebery Performance Engineering - WWW.APE-RC.COM 

 
Chris
Attebery Performance Engineering - WWW.APE-RC.COM 
 Posted: Jun-14-2013 07:39AM
Total posts: 381
Last post: Apr 1, 2014
Member since:Dec 17, 2012
Since I'm in "vent mode" I want to say this... When I was there on Wednesdsy I did a few laps on the outdoor track to see if it was as bad as everybody has been complaining about. I also did this the last time the outside track at NorCal was being criticized. In both cases, I found the track to be just fine. It's an outdoor offroad track, so the traction and surface isn't going to be as good as an indoor track, but for some reason that's what the expectation is these days. Personally, I think the indoor tracks should be high traction and the outdoor tracks medium traction and require something higher pinned than Barcodes. In addition, I hate it when any track puts sugar on their surface. Heaven forbid our cars actually slide a little in a corner. Finally, where were all of the rocks some folks were referring to? Eric spent a ton of money to get rid of the majority of them and I think they did a good job. Once again, heaven forbid there be a rock on a dirt offroad surface. Fill any potholes, repair any damaged jumps, water just enough to keep the dust down and then race. It's that simple. We have only 2 outdoor tracks in the Bay Area. Let's support them and help our hobby grow!

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 07:38AM
Total posts: 951
Last post: Aug 27, 2014
Member since:Nov 6, 2011
I really don't want to make this a NorCal only thing it's a delta raceway issue as well. Lets clean it up. Call out the hackers.

 

Team Schumacher USA 

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 07:31AM
Total posts: 490
Last post: May 27, 2015
Member since:Feb 22, 2011
I guess its the same reason they let sc cars run backwards and mess all the lips up on the jumps. No control, no more "the race place" just a "bashers paradise" now. Also stop catering to rookies, you are losing the racer and the entry list doesn't lie. Where are you making money with 3 full heats of rookie and then go and piss off the racers that actually pay entry fee's to race?

 
 
 
 
RC UNLIMITED  

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 07:24AM
Total posts: 951
Last post: Aug 27, 2014
Member since:Nov 6, 2011
Great question. He could have run with the sportsman mod class. That would have been more appropriate. My issue was more about the response I got after taking me out. He just didn't care. That's the issue at hand. Not caring. I'm going to win not matter what attitude.

If the situation was reversed, he would have been going nuts. Traffic is traffic, deal with it.

 

Team Schumacher USA 

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 07:08AM
Total posts: 381
Last post: Apr 1, 2014
Member since:Dec 17, 2012
Why was a 2wd buggy in your 4wd buggy race?

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 06:58AM
Total posts: 951
Last post: Aug 27, 2014
Member since:Nov 6, 2011
In my main, I had an incident Wednesday. Got taken out big time by a buggy running 2wd with 4wd class. He's a better driver than I for sure, but that's not the point. The point is after I started complaining he told me I was lapping you. Ohhhhh I see, because your lappin me gives you an excuse to run your car through me. This was from an xperienced driver. Btw. No stop and go. Just a missle running thru me. Total bs.

 

Team Schumacher USA 

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 05:37AM
Total posts: 1769
Last post: Jan 15, 2015
Member since:Nov 26, 2010
I was there just before the Reedy and will say that what I experienced was very disrespectful driving in all classes except for the sportsman 17.5 class. I personally was driven through by the leader and he just kept on going. I then raced against the same driver at another track the following week and he drove through me again and kept on going. This occurs when the track or facility does nothing about this type of driving. No stop and goes and no responsibility for rough driving. I have said this many many times before. It has to start with the race directors! If the race directors do not say or do anything about rough driving then why would any driver do anything about it? There has to be consequences for our behavior. For the most part, there are none! If you go race at P1 or at A main you will be held accountable for rough driving. This does not occur anywhere else

I have also recently had a driver who took me out tell me that they don't have any brakes. Wtf? How is that my problem? Don't make your problem someone else's problem! It's not right! Drivers need to start showing respect for others on the track. A little respect will go a long way guys! Trust me. It will come back to you. We as drivers can choose to show respect or we can choose to cornhole each other. It's a choice. I for one will always choose to show respect. Even if it means I don't win that race.

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 Posted: Jun-14-2013 05:12AM
Total posts: 951
Last post: Aug 27, 2014
Member since:Nov 6, 2011
I agree that rough driving has gotten out of control. It s not just SC class either. It's all the classes. What disappoints is that many drivers are looking at rookies and others. It's just about everybody. It's also not just here. I'm not sure what the problem is. It's simple . If you take another driver out, you do a stop and go. I watched many of the mains and saw time after time a driver just use anothe driver for traction. Come up on him like a missile hit him from behind and just drive off. The sport requires etiquette and fairness. I know what I do in practice is to tail another driver and learn how to pass. Put many laps just trailing another car. It's fun to go fast we all agree on that, but learn how to use your brakes and when and how to pass. Lets look at the basics and get back to them.

 

Team Schumacher USA 

 Posted: Jun-14-2013 04:14AM
Total posts: 8128
Last post: Nov 5, 2019
Member since:
4wd SC is to blame for some of the hacking we see at all tracks. There is absolutely no reason what so ever for a sportsman to be running that much horse power period. Over the past couple of years we've seen this so called sportsman class be run with guys running a 8.5 in 2wd buggy and stadium truck and SC you already know my thoughts on that. The industry is to blame as these rtr's come with these huge power plants as bashers that find their way to the race tracks. It's way too late to do anything about this as the amount of SC's out there are over whelming. We just have to live with it. Toyota can't pull every Camry off the roads and we can't get the SC out of the hands of newbies :-(

REMEMBER THE GOOD OLE DAYS...........THEY'RE NEVER COMING BACK SO WE'RE STUCK WITH THE MESS IN FRONT OF US!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

REMEMBER THE GOOD OLE DAYS...........THEY'RE NEVER COMING BACK SO WE'RE STUCK WITH THE MESS IN FRONT OF US!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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