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 USGT Tuning Tips

 Created by: badboy
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 Posted: May-31-2017 09:33PM
Total posts: 5
Last post: May 31, 2017
Member since:Dec 12, 2016
Thanks Steve - will be trying this stuff on Sunday. Appreciate the advice.

Bruce

 Posted: May-30-2017 10:12AM
 Edited:  May-30-2017 10:15AM
Total posts: 11513
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:
Quote:
Originally Posted by belewis01
Well, I'm kinda glad this old post got bumped up. as I had not seen it before.

Interesting comments by Steve, especially gearing / timing by track type. I just came back to on-road last December, and really liked USGT because of the spec tires and different bodies. Started with an older BD7, and recently switched to Xray. Took me a few races to get the car dialed in, but last week at NorCal I felt it was finally tuned right ( well, at least 90% right )

Couple of questions / comments about Steve's original posts

Gearing - interesting that you would drop timing at NorCal and Speedworld. I'm running the Team Powers V2 at 45 - 48 degrees and a 3.80 FDR, and last Sunday I was coming off the track about 140 degrees. I knew I was losing ground in the in-field, but assumed it was my driving skills. I also overheard someone mention they were running a 3.2 FDR, but figured it was racer BS and you couldn't possibly run that much gear in that heat....now it makes more sense.
 Steve - I'm assuming you now run the V2 - if so, new gearing rules or pretty much the same?

Bodies - I liked USGT because of the bodies. Because I'm not a big GM fan, I started with the Mcallister Mustang, and a setup from my sons USGT ( both Xray ) It's interesting that I needed to tweak my setup a lot to get more steering and he was running the Cadillac body. So I have a loaner Cadillac for the next run at NorCal, and I'll be looking to see if I have to switch my setting back. Looking at the Mustang and Cadillac side by side, from the front tires back the side profiles are almost identical. The front profiles are very different, the Mustang fascia is very low and vertical, whereas the Caddy is higher and leaned back. Caddy also has a bigger splitter on it.

Tires - love having spec tire, and not having to bring 4 different compounds to a race - and $25 a set is not bad either. Now that my car is working better, I'm noticing better wear on the tires. My original set ups were very hard on front tires and there was a lot of camber wear both front and back. My 1st time at Speed World pretty much wasted an almost new set of tires. Now that I'm more dialed in, I noticed very even wear on the tires,  and my last set is 2 races old, and they look barely worn. 

So anyways - belated thanks to Steve for his posts and see you at NorCal with my new FDR / timing and my loaner Caddy body. Hoping I can get a little closer to you in the infield   ; )

Bruce
Final drive for Norcal with V2  3.6. 3.7. For big track.   Speedworld 1 tooth taller on pinionntrack has good flow. 40 timing. More or less 5.5 amps on amp draw.  Motor at about 130 with fan
you will need to see how much infileld vs straight to set that u

macalli mustang is ok. Caddy is better more overall grip and steering. 

Badboy.
 Posted: May-24-2017 01:05PM
Total posts: 5
Last post: May 31, 2017
Member since:Dec 12, 2016
Well, I'm kinda glad this old post got bumped up. as I had not seen it before.

Interesting comments by Steve, especially gearing / timing by track type. I just came back to on-road last December, and really liked USGT because of the spec tires and different bodies. Started with an older BD7, and recently switched to Xray. Took me a few races to get the car dialed in, but last week at NorCal I felt it was finally tuned right ( well, at least 90% right )

Couple of questions / comments about Steve's original posts

Gearing - interesting that you would drop timing at NorCal and Speedworld. I'm running the Team Powers V2 at 45 - 48 degrees and a 3.80 FDR, and last Sunday I was coming off the track about 140 degrees. I knew I was losing ground in the in-field, but assumed it was my driving skills. I also overheard someone mention they were running a 3.2 FDR, but figured it was racer BS and you couldn't possibly run that much gear in that heat....now it makes more sense.
 Steve - I'm assuming you now run the V2 - if so, new gearing rules or pretty much the same?

Bodies - I liked USGT because of the bodies. Because I'm not a big GM fan, I started with the Mcallister Mustang, and a setup from my sons USGT ( both Xray ) It's interesting that I needed to tweak my setup a lot to get more steering and he was running the Cadillac body. So I have a loaner Cadillac for the next run at NorCal, and I'll be looking to see if I have to switch my setting back. Looking at the Mustang and Cadillac side by side, from the front tires back the side profiles are almost identical. The front profiles are very different, the Mustang fascia is very low and vertical, whereas the Caddy is higher and leaned back. Caddy also has a bigger splitter on it.

Tires - love having spec tire, and not having to bring 4 different compounds to a race - and $25 a set is not bad either. Now that my car is working better, I'm noticing better wear on the tires. My original set ups were very hard on front tires and there was a lot of camber wear both front and back. My 1st time at Speed World pretty much wasted an almost new set of tires. Now that I'm more dialed in, I noticed very even wear on the tires,  and my last set is 2 races old, and they look barely worn. 

So anyways - belated thanks to Steve for his posts and see you at NorCal with my new FDR / timing and my loaner Caddy body. Hoping I can get a little closer to you in the infield   ; )

Bruce

 Posted: May-22-2017 03:03PM
Total posts: 912
Last post: May 22, 2017
Member since:Oct 31, 2000
Huh?


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 Posted: May-22-2017 01:46PM
KOZ
Total posts: 1726
Last post: Jun 21, 2017
Member since:
Voltage is and always has been enforced and checked,club racing we are all on the honor system,but most clubs have tools to check voltage ,check,legality of motors,without a teardown,but can be torn down if a prelimany check doesnt pass.
  99% or guy's that race,locally all play within the rules as permitted.
  Always set you're charger per track volt meter,some read correct ,some read higher ,some lower,but if you check first thing against tracks meter,then you know.
  Dirt oval and pancar oval 2 cell is 8.44, 1 cell is 4.22 max thru tech before you even lay a car down.
 high charge rates is a normal race thing todays RACE cells are meant to charge fast,thats what racers want.
 

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 Posted: May-27-2015 11:05AM
 Edited:  May-27-2015 11:10AM
Total posts: 11513
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL
Volt rules are volt rules.

I just have an issue with you telling people to cheat and charge to 8.42 when the rule is 8.40

I said nothing about charge rates or any other rules or ways of cheating


Excuse me.. I wasn't telling anyone to cheat.. you must be doing that..  it is corrected..

Badboy.
 Posted: May-27-2015 09:46AM
JL
Total posts: 641
Last post: Jan 30, 2017
Member since:Mar 10, 1999
Volt rules are volt rules.

I just have an issue with you telling people to cheat and charge to 8.42 when the rule is 8.40

I said nothing about charge rates or any other rules or ways of cheating


4rings
 Posted: May-26-2015 05:54PM
Total posts: 1467
Last post: May 9, 2017
Member since:
So it's not good to charge at 40 amps to 8.60

 Awesomatix USA P1 HOBBIES TEAM POWERS 

 Posted: May-26-2015 05:12PM
 Edited:  May-26-2015 05:34PM
Total posts: 11513
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL
USGT battery rules are same as ROAR, 8.40

NOT 8.42......
Jay you are 1/2 right  

also ROAR rules are that batts cant be charged higher than 1 c   if you want to adhere to rules... if voltage is regulated .. charge rates should be too.

Rule 8.3.2.5.3 Li-Poly battery maximum charge rate shall be 1C. C= charge amp rate. Charge amp
rate = mAh capacity/1000=XAmps.
that means a 6000mah batt max charge rate is 6 amps..  
guys are charging at 40 amps!

Voltage rules

8.40  like reedy race rules
ROAR technical rules govern all classes. • All qualifying ... Maximum battery voltage – 8.40. • Maximum battery temperature – ambient temperature plus 5°F.
(I fixed it below)


Dirt oval is 8.44
As a primary safety requirement all tracks utilizing DODC rules must have an .... 17.5 Stock: Any Motor from the ROAR Approved Stock/17.5 Spec category (D3.5 Motor ... to each race to ensure battery voltage is a maximum of 8.44 volts or less.

UF1  is 8.44
UF1 has adopted the ROAR motor rules for its racing program. In UF1, all ... Due to safety reasons, all LiPo batteries cannot exceed a maxpeak voltage of 8.44v.


Tamiya Racing
°m-chassis (21.5). °outlaw vintage trans am (21.5) rules: touring car- any 190mm on-road 4wD. TOURING CAR ... all classes must use current roar approved motors and batteries found ... •8.44v maximum battery pack voltage.


ROAR Rules
Li-Poly battery maximum charge voltage.
? 1s Li-Poly batteries may be charged to a maximum of 4.20v.
? 2s Li-Poly batteries may be charged to a maximum of 8.40v.
? 3s Li-Poly batteries may be charged to a maximum of 12.6v
? 4s Li-poly batteries may be charged to a maximum of 16.80v.
? 2S LiFe batteries may be charged to a maximum of 7.40v.
? There will be no allowances for overages.

USGT Rules 2015

Badboy.
 Posted: May-26-2015 04:00PM
Total posts: 1467
Last post: May 9, 2017
Member since:
You sure it's not 8.55

 Awesomatix USA P1 HOBBIES TEAM POWERS 

 Posted: May-26-2015 03:50PM
JL
Total posts: 641
Last post: Jan 30, 2017
Member since:Mar 10, 1999
USGT battery rules are same as ROAR, 8.40

NOT 8.42......

4rings
 Posted: May-26-2015 12:54PM
 Edited:  May-26-2015 05:19PM
Total posts: 11513
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Box
thank you tattoo store
Gearing tips

21.5 motors don't make a pile of RPM   even with the timing turned up you make less torque  aka power.    don't make the mistake of only setting up for RPM  but look for sweet spot where the motor is running efficiently first.

for USGT  
Step One: Track layout will tell you what type of gearing to setup.
Short chutes and tight turns  go for RPM setup
Big flowing tracks with high speed or mid speed turns  go for a torque setup

RPM setup - lots of quick acceleration short chutes and 180's hard braking
75% infield 25% stright  - Ripon, Groundpounders, Delta, Pole Position,  Carpet like 209 Raceway Stockton (carpet is considered high grip)
start off with lots of timing Max out on the motor endbell and gearing at FDR of 4.0.  get the motor to top out RPM on straight.
Run for a few minutes and bring in and temp motor.
the goal is to get to motor 140-150 degrees by raising or lowering gearing.
Step two : Now that you found that spot write down FDR, pinion and spur..this a tight track gearing RPM setup.  FYI My team Powers actinium FDR is 4.09 @ 40 Degrees timing

Torque Setup:  High speed track  mid throttle to full throttle  big chutes and straights flowing track no 180's no hard braking ( nitro track  style tracks  Norcal, Speedworld
Start gearing at 3.2 FDR and timing set at 10-15 degrees.  
Run a few minutes navigating the track mid throttle check temp after 3 minutes
add timing  to reach motor 115-120 degrees  theres your sweet spot for big tracks.
FYI My team Powers actinium FDR is 3.21 @ 10 degrees timing

Motor Guide


Badboy.
 Posted: May-26-2015 10:51AM
Total posts: 912
Last post: May 22, 2017
Member since:Oct 31, 2000
thank you tattoo store


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Sent! Bye! Me!

 Posted: May-26-2015 08:42AM
 Edited:  May-26-2015 05:13PM
Total posts: 11513
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:
Guys  we all want to get the most out of our race cars..or how to get the max out of your spec gear!!
I spend time at the track tuning and test and PRACTICING.

If you had to choose what is the most effective it is in this order
1- tuning
2- practicing
3 - practicing and
4  - more practicing

Lets look at tuning first
three areas are critical for USGT racing Tuning 

First things you can't change  but can tune

  • Tires and insert  Gravity USGT tire (premounts are best cus i cant glue crap)
  • ESC blinky ( must be on ROAR approved esc list) certified blinky (typically Mode 1)
  • Batteries  max 8.40 volts 2 cell and MAH  ROAR approved hard case battery
  • Weight - 1450 grams (use track scale as official scale as scale vary from track to track)
  • Wing  either molded as-is or lexan (10mm max height)
How do you tune things you cant change?

Tires :  You are not allowed to grind down the ridge or change insert  but you can balance the tire.  use a prop balancer and adjust to be balanced.  I grind a bit of the rim inside the spokes  most premounts are pretty balanced but you should check and tune.
Use a good traction compound like Cheater Sauce or paragon Black on asphalt and SXT on Carpet.  Let soak in 15 mins and wipe off before run.

ESC :   blinky mode is fixed but you can tune
  • Drag Brake ;   lets you go deeper into the turn and out brake your opponent 15% is good start
  • Throttle Curve / Punch/Accelerate -  add 15-20%  to have throttle apply throttle quicker earlier in the throttle throw  make it feel punchier
  • DeadBand - increase dead band to 10%  helps with mid throttle driving and punch
  • disable reverse mode - gives you all FETs dedicated forward
  • Calibration - setup at 100% end points and 0% neutral.  then after calibration increase fwd throw to 120%   acts like a two speed by shortening the time it takes to ge to full throttle

Batteries  -   Quality batteries are key to good spec racing.  Select a battery capacity to at least 3x of typical 6 min run.  ex:  6 mins race uses 1800 mah..  select and batt with min 3600 mah   so batt does not flatten out  5500 mah is good 6000 mah is best

Conditioning:    use you race batts for racing run only 7 mins and condition and charge
Internal Resistance - Use batts with know low IR  1.1 or lower

Weight; place add weights to balance your car side to side and front to back  dont just slap on lead and expect your car to handle

Wings   move up or down or fwd or back to get car balance even a 1/4" forward can add steering high speed  then test


Things you have choices with

  • Body  any  body except T2 touring car, trucks or  prototypes  must be some form of GT/DTM/Street car
  • ESC, Steering Servo, RX brands
  • Gearing
  • Springs, shock oils, gearing, ride height, roll center, wheelbase, droop, camber and caster, toe in/out, gear sizes

Good luck






Badboy.